More of this Cap stuff
Aug. 5th, 2011 10:29 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
seriousficOkay, one more post then I'm back to work on my Femslash11 story. I think a lot of people's dissatisfaction with the Captain America movie stems from a basic disagreement with the subject matter. They got a pulpy adventure movie in the vein of Indiana Jones, kid-friendly and pretty faithful to the initial Cap comics. What I think some people wanted was Saving Private Ryan with some vague superhero action. You know, Cap spends the entire movie with a leather jacket over his super-duds, people are swearing, folks are getting their arms blown up... and okay, that would be kinda cool. But there's also a desire for Cap to be less of a "one-note" character (as if Batman and Wolverine aren't one-note in their grouchiness. Apparently straining for an ideal and occasionally falling short isn't as interesting as just wallowing in angst). I think people wanted the Ultimate Captain America, going around talking shit about African-Americans and learning a lesson about jingoism and going to internment camps.
And the thing is, that's never been what Captain America's represented. It's more metaphorical than realistic for him to have all of the good points of the Greatest Generation without any of the flaws, but superhero fiction has always traded in metaphor and allegory. That's why the Truth storyline was such a bad idea (IMHO), because it unnecessarily diluted the mythology of the character, one of those stultifying retcons that does nothing more than add more dots to be connected. Like how X-Men writers couldn't resist adding more and more moral ambiguity to Professor X, so now he's more of a villain than Magneto. "NOW YOU KNOW that Dr. Strange and Mr. Fantastic secretly got together to discuss a young Peter Parker's career as Spider-Man and in the end decided they were cool with it!"
For Cap to work in the ensemble setting of the Avengers, he has to come from a different viewpoint then the rest of the cast, and a cynicism and edginess towards the government is already covered. Iron Man and the Hulk are specifically suspicious of the US government, and even Thor is an elaborate critique of Bush foreign policy. So what would the dynamic be if Cap was like that too?
Steve: I don't trust the government!
Tony: I don't trust the government!
Bruce: I don't trust the government!
Thor: I don't trust the government!
Nick Fury: I'm so glad we assembled all you guys.
It makes me wonder if a Civil War adaptation would reverse the roles of the conflict, with Steve being naively optimistic in supporting the government and Tony being a hardline cynic in rejecting them. Then again, in the movieverse the Avengers already work for the government and so far there've been maybe a half-dozen superheroes, so...
ETA: So a first look at Catwoman in The Dark Knight Rises has come out and it's not getting a great reception. Even though she's wearing goggles, the leather bodysuit, her costume isn't unzipped to her navel (that's Black Cat's look anyway), and she has apparently hijacked the goddamn Batpod.
Just remember, the last time we saw Catwoman, she looked like this.
The difference is that between finding out a loved one has cancer and finding out a loved one has baked you a cake. Are you really going to complain that the cake doesn't have sprinkles on it?
And the thing is, that's never been what Captain America's represented. It's more metaphorical than realistic for him to have all of the good points of the Greatest Generation without any of the flaws, but superhero fiction has always traded in metaphor and allegory. That's why the Truth storyline was such a bad idea (IMHO), because it unnecessarily diluted the mythology of the character, one of those stultifying retcons that does nothing more than add more dots to be connected. Like how X-Men writers couldn't resist adding more and more moral ambiguity to Professor X, so now he's more of a villain than Magneto. "NOW YOU KNOW that Dr. Strange and Mr. Fantastic secretly got together to discuss a young Peter Parker's career as Spider-Man and in the end decided they were cool with it!"
For Cap to work in the ensemble setting of the Avengers, he has to come from a different viewpoint then the rest of the cast, and a cynicism and edginess towards the government is already covered. Iron Man and the Hulk are specifically suspicious of the US government, and even Thor is an elaborate critique of Bush foreign policy. So what would the dynamic be if Cap was like that too?
Steve: I don't trust the government!
Tony: I don't trust the government!
Bruce: I don't trust the government!
Thor: I don't trust the government!
Nick Fury: I'm so glad we assembled all you guys.
It makes me wonder if a Civil War adaptation would reverse the roles of the conflict, with Steve being naively optimistic in supporting the government and Tony being a hardline cynic in rejecting them. Then again, in the movieverse the Avengers already work for the government and so far there've been maybe a half-dozen superheroes, so...
ETA: So a first look at Catwoman in The Dark Knight Rises has come out and it's not getting a great reception. Even though she's wearing goggles, the leather bodysuit, her costume isn't unzipped to her navel (that's Black Cat's look anyway), and she has apparently hijacked the goddamn Batpod.
Just remember, the last time we saw Catwoman, she looked like this.
The difference is that between finding out a loved one has cancer and finding out a loved one has baked you a cake. Are you really going to complain that the cake doesn't have sprinkles on it?
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no subject
Date: 2011-08-05 06:09 pm (UTC)Minor point, but Millar's Ultimate Cap wasn't a racist (he also wasn't sexist in any real sense, nor homophobic, etc.; so the idea that Millar's character is actually a more 'realistic' representation of 1940s attitudes doesn't really hold up anyway). He didn't believe that Ultimate Fury was who he said he was solely because, from a 1940s perspective, it was implausible, not something he personally had a problem with (Millar's run includes background photos of him hanging out with the Tuskegee Airmen, among other things). Millar's Captain America was just incredibly jingoistic. He had no problem whatsoever working with minorities, women, etc. after he realized that he actually was in the 21st century.
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Date: 2011-08-05 06:10 pm (UTC)I mean, I'm not talking frothing at the mouth hatred here, I'm just saying the picture does very little for me.
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Date: 2011-08-05 06:11 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-08-05 08:45 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-08-06 12:06 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-08-06 12:39 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-08-06 03:53 pm (UTC)And assaulting a guy who hurt his wife after they had a fight, and the wife in question had already left the guy.
>Nick Fury: I'm so glad we assembled all you guys.
Altenately: "Then why did you come here?"
>Just remember, the last time we saw Catwoman, she looked like this.
"It's overtime!"