(no subject)
May. 21st, 2011 01:02 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
seriousficSo I saw a post earlier off Metafandom talking about "No Heterosexual Explanation" or scenes where there isn't any doubt that two characters are meant to be seen as homosexual. And that does happen, but as you might expect, there are a lot of comments where the heterosexual explanation would be "men can be friends and not bone each other." I mean, I'm not trying to be That fan, but someone brought up J.D. and Turk from Scrubs unironically. I mean, honestly people.
It's just that I find that kind of fannish entitlement annoying. It's like they're saying "oh, I'm not just reading the text in my own way, I'm watching the real show and all you other people aren't special enough to see it." And I try to be more realistic and enjoy, say, Legend of the Seeker as both the Richard&Kahlan Show they intended and as the Cara&Kahlan Show they might have intended. And then you have people getting mad when their particular take on canon is invalidated, even though the creators are under no obligation to pander to them (like they would be if, say, they created a homosexual character, then backed off and gave him a girlfriend). Like I know someone on tumblr who is outraged whenever Tim Drake is written as heterosexual, since he's clearly gay. After all, when has a teenage boy even been emotionally closed off, or not physically intimate, or awkward around girls?
And to cover my bases again, I can see where they're coming from on some things, like in Nightwing OYL when Dick Grayson was depicted as a bed-hopping sex machine, which isn't so much for him being het as for him being someone who is very about relationships and monogamy, despite the 'fandom bicycle' jokes. But if it's just about the fact that he's not gazing soulfully into Roy Harper's eyes, then come on. Write your own fanfic, you can't expect DC to do it for you.
Anyway, the tipping point is that two people brought up Star Trek 3: The Search for Spock as "proof" that Kirk and Spock are gay. No. Kirk does what he does because his best friend's immortal soul isn't at peace, and his other best friend is suffering from a mental illness that can only be cured one way. Most people would do what he does for a friend, especially a Big Damn Hero like Kirk. It's not something he would only do for a lover. And the entire crew comes with him! What, are they all having sex with Spock too? Come on.
It's just that I find that kind of fannish entitlement annoying. It's like they're saying "oh, I'm not just reading the text in my own way, I'm watching the real show and all you other people aren't special enough to see it." And I try to be more realistic and enjoy, say, Legend of the Seeker as both the Richard&Kahlan Show they intended and as the Cara&Kahlan Show they might have intended. And then you have people getting mad when their particular take on canon is invalidated, even though the creators are under no obligation to pander to them (like they would be if, say, they created a homosexual character, then backed off and gave him a girlfriend). Like I know someone on tumblr who is outraged whenever Tim Drake is written as heterosexual, since he's clearly gay. After all, when has a teenage boy even been emotionally closed off, or not physically intimate, or awkward around girls?
And to cover my bases again, I can see where they're coming from on some things, like in Nightwing OYL when Dick Grayson was depicted as a bed-hopping sex machine, which isn't so much for him being het as for him being someone who is very about relationships and monogamy, despite the 'fandom bicycle' jokes. But if it's just about the fact that he's not gazing soulfully into Roy Harper's eyes, then come on. Write your own fanfic, you can't expect DC to do it for you.
Anyway, the tipping point is that two people brought up Star Trek 3: The Search for Spock as "proof" that Kirk and Spock are gay. No. Kirk does what he does because his best friend's immortal soul isn't at peace, and his other best friend is suffering from a mental illness that can only be cured one way. Most people would do what he does for a friend, especially a Big Damn Hero like Kirk. It's not something he would only do for a lover. And the entire crew comes with him! What, are they all having sex with Spock too? Come on.
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no subject
Date: 2011-05-21 07:03 pm (UTC)THIS. This exactly...
And then you have people getting mad when their particular take on canon is invalidated, even though the creators are under no obligation to pander to them.
... and this. This precisely.
You eloquence at the things ticking me off in fandom right now is most appreciated.
I sometimes feel a though some of fandom is out to actually insult the friendship of the characters sometimes. Like "Oh, if they were just friends, they couldn't possibly be willing to go that far for each other."
It makes me frown. In a very frowningly frowny-face sort of way.
no subject
Date: 2011-05-21 07:31 pm (UTC)It's one of the main reasons I dislike both Wincest and Buffy/Xander so much. Because to me personally, those two relationships are far richer and far more interesting when there's no romantic element involved in them.
no subject
Date: 2011-05-21 08:26 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-21 09:16 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-22 12:36 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-23 01:39 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-23 01:40 pm (UTC)/de-lurks
Date: 2011-05-21 09:17 pm (UTC)I had a long conversation with co-workers yesterday debating whether JKR did this with Remus and Tonks. Because gay characters are often presented in code, especially in YA fiction, in order to be mainstreamed by their publisher (instead of being relegated to the Queer Friendly shelf) the questions were: 1) did Remus and/or Tonks sufficiently set off general audience gaydar, or was it a case of widespread but baseless fanon? and 2) if they did, was it out-of-bounds for JKR to explicitly turn them het, or was she within her rights to pair off her whole cast as she liked?
You seem to have 2) answered, but creating a homosexual character isn't as easy as creating a het one. Alas. So I have a lot of sympathy for folks who're looking for the codes.
ps Dick has to be bi if you take all his canon into account, but nobody does that, seriously, no one.
Re: /de-lurks
Date: 2011-05-21 09:24 pm (UTC)Particularly since Rowling later included another gay character primarily through subtext.
Re: /de-lurks
Date: 2011-05-23 01:44 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-21 10:53 pm (UTC)Right.
PGSM
Date: 2011-05-22 05:16 am (UTC)At least according to Kitagawa Keiko LOL
Also, that accidental (yeah, right!!) groping scene!
Re: PGSM
Date: 2011-05-22 05:34 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-22 12:07 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-22 06:31 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-23 01:45 pm (UTC)/joke
no subject
Date: 2011-05-23 02:10 pm (UTC)