A Quick Question

[seriousfic]

As some of you may know, I follow metafandom. One thing I've noticed in every race-wank, gender-wank, feminist-wank (maybe we should shorten that to fem-wank... although that sounds funner than it often is)... is that someone will always respond to the merest implication that they should be "polite" with the rhetorical "has polite ever convinced anyone to change their mind?"

Well, this, to me, invites a pretty obvious follow-up question that I've never heard asked. So, feminists, FOA, transfans... has being (we'll put it nicely) "rude" ever resulted in changing the mind of the person you're arguing with?

Comments

[pendown.livejournal.com]

Never. But in my case by the time I get abnormally rude, I'm normally deconstructing aimed at the peanut gallery. Or otherwise exasperated and not expecting the person I'm talking to to change.

On second thoughts, my being rude has changed someone's mind twice. But in both cases it was with someone I know in real life who really wasn't expecting me to approach things that way. And when I actually was rude (rather than just accidently domineering, which I do a lot), the person I was speaking to was in both cases shocked enough to reevaluate. But that has only worked with someone who knew me well.

[http://users.livejournal.com/thrace_/]

I think people don't place a high enough premium on courtesy these days.

[potatoko.livejournal.com]

Nope. But smacking 'em around a bit sometimes works. :D I don't know. It'd be nice to be able to stay calm in a debate you're passionate about whilst the opposition says things which are LIKE, OBVIOUSLY RONG OMG, but we're only human. I'd say having a good argument that raises issues others haven't thought about can change minds whether you're polite or rude. But if you attack someone, they'll go on the defensive and probably be less inclined to take what you're saying on board . . .

I guess it depends, is what I'm saying. As a rule I'm pretty agressive when i get going about something, but most of my mates know me well enough to just ignore it or not take it personally; but in recent history i got into an argument with a rather . . . traditional girl who, god help me, said "loose women" (think The View for brits) was feminism gone too far. Well I was, shall we say, impolite- and it resulted in her permanently banning me from arguing with her ever again. So I'd say keeping your cool is king.

[lurkslikefox.livejournal.com]

"Rude" has resulted in me not wanting to talk to that person any more and therefore finishing the argument. "Stupid" has made them think that this means they've won.

[mcity.livejournal.com]

I've noticed that whenever I get deliberately rude, I feel nice while I'm saying it and like a dick the second my lips stop moving.

And to answer the actual question; rarely.

[rann.livejournal.com]

It's hard to tell when you've changed someone else's mind, really.

Usually, when I'm rude, it's either because 1) I really am legitimately annoyed at whatever they said, or 2) I can see their mind isn't going to be changed. And it's usually the second. When someone starts going into how every single female in the DCU is now immortal, unkillable, and with all of Superman's powers except no weakness to kryptonite or magic, but they still made Wonder Woman's new sweatsuit costume those colors of Man's World and that's just sexist, then I take that as a signal to say "Okay, fuck it."

(Purely rhetorical situation, people, stand down from Hackles Level Seven.)

[rann.livejournal.com]

Oh, and I was gonna say, there HAVE been a few times where I've just cut straight to the point and said "That is complete bullshit and here's why", and that actually got someone to acknowledge at least some part of my point. At which point the rudeness is either toned down or put away.