So long as I'm daring the gods of wank to smite me... the kids are alright

[seriousfic]

Yes, Twilight sucks. But feminists? Is your main complaint that it's sexist or that it's sexist and young girls are reading it? Let me exercise my psychic power... you played with Barbie and turned out just fine? Or some other terribly prejudiced thing? I highly doubt you were raised liking everyone racially sensitive, sexually unproblematic, and gay-friendly.

Seriously, now, "Won't someone please think of the children"? You know who you sound like, right?

Here's how it's going to happen. Twilight will be popular for another few years, then people will forget all about it. All those die-hard fans now? They'll wonder why they ever liked it. They'll deny all those badfics they wrote about kissing Edward Cullen and you know what? They'll turn out just fine.

Because, let's face it... as bad as Twilight is, is it any worse than Flowers In The Attic or a thousand other trashy novels that young girls have been reading since the beginning of time? Twilight will implode all on its own, and twenty years from now it will just be a Yuletide request to write a feminist spin on "my childhood shame."

And yes, I know Twilight is no Harry Potter, but was Harry Potter really all that great? Be honest now.

(Okay, honestly, HP is still awesome and Twilight can't lick its boots, but still, not that awesome.)

Comments

[galamb-borong.livejournal.com]

You know, I have a secret desire to write a novel that starts out with the appearance of going down the human-female vampire-male romance road, then takes a sudden turn around chapter two or three and becomes a totally un-romantic and somewhat dry political thriller where our heroine realizes that having mind-controlling blood suckers around the place might not be a good idea, and tries to get the government to do something about it.

No romance. None. She thinks Mr. Vampire is a douche by the first third, at least.

The sole purpose of this novel would be to disappoint teenage girls. Is that sexist?

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

I would buy it the day it came out, as long as I already knew it wouldn't be a romance.

[runa27.livejournal.com]

You know, for something to trashy, Twilight gives me all kinds of fun plotbunnies lately.

I've got an idea for a plot that seems to parallel the "vampire bad boy + girl who gets enthralled" vampire romance plot to a tee... right up until we find out he's a serial killer and actually DOES want to eat her.

I've also got an idea for basically what Twilight would have been like if it was one-sided... in other words, confused, creepy, obsessed vampire stalker whose stalk-ee does NOT feel the love. ;)

[sabinetzin]

I don't think the argument about Twilight is that it's sexist, so much. It's mostly that it's BATSHIT CRAZY INSANE. Shit, I thought the first one was a horror novel until the end.

[seriousfic.livejournal.com]

No, no, I checked and there's a lot of "impressionable young girls reading sexist tripe, OH NOES!" going around.

[sabinetzin]

Man, that's too easy. It's not sexist; it portrays negative views of women, vampires, sane persons, and good old fashioned sense.

It's egalitarian, in a way.

[seriousfic.livejournal.com]

In a "Communism is an equal distribution of misery" kind of way.

[sabinetzin]

Precisely.

[runa27.livejournal.com]

You know, I would love to have faith that girls are smarter than that, but honestly? I've got mixed feelings. I'm too cynical to be as optimistic as you are here.

Will quite a few of them fit exactly the pattern you described? Hell yes. As a woman now in her 20s, I know I was an idiot at 13, and mostly grew out of it over time.

However, I ALSO know that the patterns of "what turns you on" can very easily set in around that age. And fiction is often, while not necessarily the cause, an unfortunate warning sign (well, "unfortunate warning sign" is relative, depending on how unhealthy you think a particular kind of relationship is... I started thinking girl/girl was romantic around that age for instance, and to be honest, I prefer women now, and see no actual problem with that).

In fact, what worries me most is NOT that "OMG Twilight could cause them to go for guys like that" but rather, that the fact they like Twilight and see nothing wrong at all with Edward's behavior is SIGN they could go for guys like that. The fact that they honestly can't seem to understand that a guy who watches little unsuspecting you in your sleep and steals the engine out of your truck so you can't leave the house IS NOT A GOOD BOYFRIEND. The fact that, most worryingly of all, people like the Twilight Moms are adult women that openly express in front of their own children no less, that they fantasize about Edward Cullen and also show no sign of seeing anything wrong with his behavior... yeah, way to set an example, mamas!

If I actually saw more of these same girls admitting they "wouldn't actually want that kind of attention" in real life, I wouldn't be very perturbed. But quite a few of them seem dead-set on finding a real-life "Edward" type with no concept of how his behavior is abusive. And their own mothers effectively condone it and say, through actions if nothing else that "there's nothing wrong with the way he treats Bella! He's ROMANTIC".

Again, some of them might grow out of it, yes. Thank god some of them will. But for others, this is only the first sign that they're the type to go for abusive and dangerously possessive guys. And that wigs me out a little, particularly since I've already seen one person (over in the comments on Cleolinda's LJ) note that she felt the same way as you right up until the point her cousin's daughter was caught sneaking off to hide in her boyfriend's car all day while he was at work. He apparently told her to do so, and left her bottled water and snacks and she had to sneak out to use the bathroom. She saw nothing wrong with this. She is also an avid Twilight fan who ships Edward/Bella.

Like I said... maybe not a cause. But in some cases, definitely a warning sign. This is not to say I don't think people shouldn't read it if they get entertainment out of it or whatever, or that I'm going to go out an picket the movie or anything. But if I were a mom and my daughter got into Twilight? I'd be having a long conversation about it, let's put it that way.

[meganbmoore.livejournal.com]

My problem is that it sucks and people are reading it instead of the muchmuchmuch better books out there.

I think people are influenced by what they read and the messages fiction sends, but not to the point where something like Twilight will warp them forever. From a feminist standpoint, it's just a cog in the never ending "girl exists for male and to display male angst" machine. No worse than a lot of what's out there.

But if people are going to read something like that, couldn't it be something good?

[seriousfic.livejournal.com]

Well, yeah, but unfortunately crap gets read instead of good stuff all the time. Just look at, say, Dan Brown or James Frey. At least the Twifans have the excuse of being, for the most part, thirteen-year-old girls who don't know any better.

[mylenn.livejournal.com]

I don't quite get the whole thing over Twilight. Having read a bit online, I cansee why people might be a bit miffed over them, but they need to get over it. It's just a book. It will not overly-traumatize anyone. ;)

[runa27.livejournal.com]

*snerk!* Won't traumatize? You haven't read the middle "book" in Breaking Dawn yet, have you? It almost makes Rosemary's Baby look TAME. :P

But that's more of a regular squick factor, really.

Although, I will say this much: I hate when people try to brush off potential influence or meaning by saying "it's just a book", as if the mere fact that it's in book form is going to make people not take it seriously. You know what else was "just a book"? The Bible and Uncle Tom's Cabin. :P Not that I think Twilight is going to have all that much of an impact in and of itself (if you look at my previous post above, I'm actually more inclined to think that idolizing Edward's a potential "warning sign" more than a "cause" of anything), but that's a really cop-out kind of argument when you put it that way. Now "it's just a cheesy, unrealistic angsty teen fantasy-romance story" I could almost get behind, but - and yeah, maybe it's just me, but - phrases like "it's just a book" kind of make me twitch a little. :P

[fembuck.livejournal.com]

OMG! Trufax. I totally agree. We just had this discussion in the English office two days ago, and made the same points down to the V.C. Andrews/Flowers in the Attic argument. All teen girls read crappy romance fiction, and most turn out just fine. And really, with those that don't turn out fine it really shouldn't be blamed on a crappy book they read years and years ago.

The reason I hate Twilight is because I wasted my time reading it, and now it has some crazy cocaine like effect on me, where I crave it even though I know it's bad for me. I'll join in the anti-fandom lulz, but I can't take real criticism of the books seriously. I mean it sucks, but it's not like it's the worse thing to ever happen to the world, or feminism.

[seriousfic.livejournal.com]

Speaking of crappy romance fiction, in the mood for some drunken Emma/Kitty sexin'?

[http://users.livejournal.com/radon_/]

I always thought people hated Twilight because it was more RLY BAD STORYTELLING than OMGZSEXIST! (at least, that's my main view regarding the series). My key contention is that everyone's insanely perfect.

What scares me is the idea that some tweens reading the book may get overromanticized notions of love and the Edward Cullen does it so it's okay idea. Actually Twi-mums are pretty freaky too.