Dear Game of Thrones fandom,

[seriousfic]

Possibly this is because I haven't been watching the show, but I've noticed a certain... shift in blog and tumblr posts. Because, see, you started out like:

"OMG KHAL DROGO RAPED DAENERYS, WTF SHOW EWW?"

And now you're like

"Awww, Daenerys and Khal Drogo are such a cute couple. OTP!"

I know I missed, like, watching the show but... did I miss something? Like, really? Did it turn out the rape was an elaborate ruse? As revealed during a threesome with Denise Richards?


I don't think a "floating heads" poster has ever been so literal.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Sigh. . . no. Dany was stuck, and decided to . . . I can't believe I'm about to say this . . . make the best of it. It was portrayed as her seizing control of her sex life . . . but by topping the guy who bought her from her brother. Yeah, it's deeply, deeply problematic.

Their relationship is NOW more equitable, they discuss things as husband and wife, and he clearly loves her . . . but. Yeah. Um. *head in hands* I actually don't mind the relationship- but that's because I know what happens with Dany over the course of the next few books. And how much of a BAMF she is, and how she pretty much just owns every obstacle between her and her ultimate goal.

The show has not elided these details, but fandom . . . fandom loves a shaved chest and can't remember back more than an episode or so. Damon salvatore proves this.

If it helps, "medieval times sucked for women" is kind of one of the key themes of this show.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh, I mean "no, you've not missed anything" not "no, I disagree with your assumption."

[nonky.livejournal.com]

I'm going to assume this was a question-question and not a rhetorical question, so SPOILERS.




My short answer: Tone and Perspective changed a lot in seven episodes.

The wedding night as such was pretty much Daenerys being bent over by Drogo and consummated. She was crying and obviously upset but she did not really do much of anything to help or hinder things. He even tried to comfort her in his socially inept way, by touching her face and saying 'no' to her tears. The language barrier didn't really allow much more conversation than that.

When next we see the couple together, she is tossed across the bed and very visibly not having fun, though she doesn't seem hurt or bothered. It's not until one of her handmaidens (can a former prostitute BE a handmaiden?) gives her some sexing lessons that Daenerys decides to show Drogo a position other than 'mounted like a mare.' From there it seems like he was legitimately trying to be considerate of her, he just had no clue about not fucking like a porn star.

And thus came emotional intimacy, and the fandom was appeased! I think POV is an important and under-recognized part of any show, and that first look at Drogo and sex was definitely from Daenerys' virginal perspective. She was scared and suffering from culture shock, and even a box of snakes couldn't make her feel better.

Drogo was very briefly on screen in the first few episodes and there was a lot of Dothraki dialogue without translation or subtitles. His viewpoint on things was being filtered through third parties. His wife had no way of looking at him except as a particularly strange stranger. They couldn't speak to each other without a translator, and neither of them could comprehend the other as a concept.

Once they got to know each other, they've been considerate, loving and pretty much in agreement with their political views. In a modern marriage all the circumstances would be criminal, but Game of Thrones isn't going to uphold feminist values and viewers would be stupid to expect that. Diagnosing Daenerys with Stockholm Syndrome isn't going to make it possible for her to divorce Drogo. It's fantasy and the taboo is going to exist as a matter of course because it can be done there.

As for the race thing, what might have been an issue at first is dead and buried for me. They have the best relationship of any married couple on the show, and seem to have genuine feelings for one another.

[fembuck.livejournal.com]

*sigh* I too am completely confused by the fandom turn around in regards to Dany and Drogo. I mean, yes, the show no longer shows him forcing himself on her, they now converse with each other and he is protective of her ... but dude still raped her (and would still be raping her if Dany didn't decide to try and turn her lemons into lemonade).

Drogo is being rather nice right now because Dany is doing EXACTLY what he wants (i.e. keeping the horse heart down and the omens pointing to her having a male child instead of a female one). However, I'm pretty sure that if they ever had a real argument (even in private) where she stood firmly in opposition to him that she would find herself forcefully put in her place.

I understand Dany having to accept her situation and making the most out of it, and no doubt her life is much better now that Drogo has some affection for her and treats her like a person, but there's isn't exactly an ideal relationship nor is Drogo an ideal partner.

People say that with the culture of the Dothraki and the time period of the show that viewers can't expect an equal partnership between them or for everyone to be up with feminism and I agree that expecting that would be unrealistic.

What I don't get/take issue with is people acting like Dany/Drogo are some kind of dreamy couple. It's one thing to say that Dany has accepted her situation and it is now that best that it could be given her circumstances, but it's another to act like theirs is a love for the ages.

If Drogo/Jason Momoa wasn't so hot, I truly doubt that so many people would be 'shipping' Dany/Drogo.

The hot characters get more love/are seen to be somehow 'sympathetic' or 'misunderstood' while ugly and/or characters that most viewers don't want to sleep with are evil monsters. Hence, why greasy Theon Greyjoy is universally hated even though he hasn't actually raped anyone (just paid for it a lot like Tyrion), he hasn't fucked a family member, he hasn't perv'd on some 13/14 year old girl, and he actually saved a child instead of trying to kill one. Theon's a smug, smarmy bastard and I don't like him, but he's acted a lot less reprehensibly than a lot of 'studly' characters yet receives much more hate.

Edited for off-topic ranty-ness

[(Anonymous)]

I actually like show Theon, but book Theon may be colouring people's perceptions.

[fembuck.livejournal.com]

I actually like show Theon

Theon comes off much better on the show than he does in the books. I can't say that I actually like him at this point, but I do feel for him (which I like because after the way he's been belittled by others and even smacked down by Robb it makes some of his future action much more understandable).

book Theon may be colouring people's perceptions.

Yeah, I can see this. People knowing what's coming might sour them on him. I think show!Cersei's suffers from book hate as well, because while she's not all purity and light on the show, she's been given layers and there's been an attempt made to soften her a bit, but she still gets treated like a creature of pure evil.

Likewise, Jamie might get love from book lovers because of how his storyline progresses.

I still think that people are mostly swooning over Drogo mostly because of how insanely hot Jason Momoa is. I honestly think people would be a lot more lukewarm to the character if he wasn't so incredibly handsome.

Then again, other than Ned/Catelyn (who have a really good relationship that's actually founded in love and respect, but whom we like NEVER see together) there's really no other relationship that people can really 'ship', so Dany/Drogo might be winning over the romantics by default.

Like who else do they have?

Theon/Roz?

Tyrion/Whore #2, 3, and 4?

The twincestual wonders Jamie and Cersei?

Sansa/Joffery (gag)?

Littlefinger/Catelyn?

Jorah/Dany (I see you staring pedobear!)?

We've really even only gotten one scene of Renly/Loras so it's hard to be too invested in them either at this point.

And now that I've written that I understand the Dany/Drogo shippers a little more, though I still think Dany/Drogo isn't much to write home about.

[telepresence.livejournal.com]

I think part of it is also that Viserys is around for all the Dany stuff up till now, and he's such a towering pile of malevolence and abuse and craziness, Drogo barely registers in terms of who the "problem man" is in Dany's life.

[fembuck.livejournal.com]

*Sigh* Poor Dany, she's got so many 'winners' surrounding her. But yeah, I think you're right about the Viserys factor. Drogo/the power and protection she has because of Drogo have saved her from Viserys on numerous occasions so in that storyline it's hard to see Drogo as the bad guy.

Despite how Drogo started out, Viserys has always occupied the majority of my hate in that storyline. Harry Lloyd was amazing in the role, but I was so happy when that rat bastard was 'crowned'.

[doclinus.livejournal.com]

That's kind of how I see The Vampire Diaries. I enjoy the show, but come on, why does everyone forgive Damon for the horrible shit he does so easily?

[fembuck.livejournal.com]

YES!

I really like TVD, but the amount of unconditional love Damon gets infuriates me.

Damon does a lot of really, really shitty things, but fans don't care because Somerhalder (Smolderhotter) is sexy. Like in that whole 'Damon putting vamp blood in Elena so she'll turn instead of die' storyline my sympathy wasn't for him, it was for Elena. He attacked her and took away her ability to choose how to live her life and possibly had condemned her to a future of murdering people and hating herself because he would miss her and I was supposed to feel sorry for him?

I don't think so.

[doclinus.livejournal.com]

And isn't compelling kind of like rape? Oh, and same goes for Eric in True Blood. I have the same opinion on him that I have on Damon: great character, fun to watch, but fans seem to consider him some kind of saint, to the point where they demonize Bill. Yeah, Bill does lots of bad things, but he isn't nowhere near as evil as Eric can be.

I adore Benjamin Linus. He's my favourite fictional character and Michael Emerson is my favourite actor because of that. And I would never excuse his behaviour. He kills people! He's committed genocide! And what I love about his redemption is that it feels like it'll never be over. In season six, he's on thin ice with the Losties when he starts working with them and everyone is constantly suspicious of him.

But with Damon? Whenever he does something that isn't pure evil, he's treated like he's some kind of heroic Christ figure by the fandom. Oooh, he killed Lexi but nevermind look at his chest, oooh, he repeatedly raped and abused Caroline but check out that smile and he deserves to be happy! Uh, no, he doesn't. He doesn't deserve redemption; he should have to earn redemption.

Some fans just can't understand that characters can be evil within the show and still be fun to watch. Hell, look at my icon. I don't excuse the actions of a character like Mikhail on Lost; I understand why he did the things he did, but it doesn't change the fact that he's a murderer.

I think the above rant doesn't make as much sense as I hoped it would. I haven't proof-read. I don't know.

TL;DR

Fans think liking an evil character means they have to make excuses for that character's actions, even when it makes no sense.

[paraxdisepink.livejournal.com]

Drogo just gave some big speech about how he was going to invade Westeros and rape all their women, and I don't hear much fandom revulsion for that shit. They are not a cute couple.

It's like Little House on the Prarie, there are horses and . . . rape dances . . .

[nonky.livejournal.com]

I think fandom attitudes get a little funny about couples they accept. Drogo and Daenerys are definitely not sweet and wholesome newly weds on an extended horseback vacation. She's an exiled princess and heir to a dynasty. He's a guy who goes out raping, killing and pillaging professionally. There are a lot of other dynasties that would be happy to see them dead.

Frankly, as wrong as it was for her brother to auction her off for an army, she probably needs a husband who can kill a whole lot of people or she won't last long. Daenerys has yet to show any upset about violence and death, even if she had the influence over Drogo to instill mercy. For her, thirteen is a very different age than any girl in modern times, and she is the daughter of The Mad King.

I don't look at them and go "Aw, that's a lot less rapey than it used to be." I'm not reminiscing about how Drogo seems to look at consent as a optional part of his sexual life. He's getting his money's worth from his new bride and he has found out he actually likes her. They are aligned in their purposes and have similar ambitions for their child.

Fandom is pretty weird, so I'm sure there are people who think Drogo not raping Daenerys is just dreamy. I'm more focused on two people making their circumstances work and using their own power as best they can. If some people are watching to get attached to the young, hot couple, I can't control that.

Re: It's like Little House on the Prarie, there are horses and . . . rape dances . . .

[paraxdisepink.livejournal.com]

Fandom gets hypocritical when they find someone hot. I can't really criticize too much because I'm all about the San/San - some things just make sense in the context of GRRM's world that don't fly anywhere else. Thirteen in his world is more like 18.

I'm not reminiscing about how Drogo seems to look at consent as a optional part of his sexual life

That's what a lot of the outcry was about. In the books, he made an effort to obtain her consent, and while it was kind of rape regardless because she didn't have the right to say no, it spoke better of him than the show version. It gave a better understanding of why she, in her circumstances, would come to like him - he was kinder than he had to be.

Even then though, Drogo would just wake her up at night for sex and ignore her the rest of the time while he spent time with the guys and other women. The attention he pays to her later on is because of the son she's carrying. He did seem to admire how tough she was in being so determined to adopt Dothraki ways, but nonetheless the relationship was very hollow. I just don't see it as a ship to get excited over. He's a brute and it's not like she really changes him for the better. Canonically, she kinda has bad taste in men and she herself views her relationship as a form of slavery, and part of why she dislikes slavery so much.