MARVEL FAILS FOREVER

[seriousfic]

To quote Marc Guggenheim: "Here's my attitude, if anyone is upset about the marriage going away, then they must all be pro-gay marriage," he continued. "Because if you're pro-gay marriage, you understand the distinction between a marriage and a civil union -- that a civil union is not equal to a marriage. We downgraded Mary Jane and Peter to a civil union. If that bothers you, then you're pro-gay marriage."

Wow. Usually to get to a sentiment that damning, you have to be interviewed by David Frost.

Leaving aside the GLARING HOMOPHOBIA there (this is the guy DEFENDING One More Day, remember, by apparently hoping OMD-haters will hear his argument and go "Icky! Icky! Gay marriage! You are right, good sir, I see now how disliking OMD is exactly like supporting the hated gay marriage! Oh, my shame and agony!"), seeing as it will be well-covered by other peeps...

Okay, so Peter and Mary-Jane were in a "civil union" (to quote the poorest chosen metaphor EVER). But that still means they broke up, at least to their recollection. Which is to say, at SOME POINT Peter and Mary-Jane believe they broke up because Mephisto "really" broke up their marriage, so at least SOME STORIES before OMD must be invalidated.

Which begs the question "why did they break up?" (Or to be more accurate, why do they THINK they broke up?)

See, now we're right back to doing a story about Peter and Mary-Jane's marriage breaking up naturally, PLUS all this Mephisto bullshit, plus living in sin, plus asking why their SELF-PROCLAIMED EPIC LOVE doesn't just make them work through whatever they think made them break-up. And this is a couple that'd been working through exactly the issues that could've possibly led for a break-up for the last 15 years. So if in an old story, MJ got over Peter having to risk his life as Spider-Man and the reason she broke up with him turns out to be that she can't accept that... what? Did she have her fingers crossed?

And if Peter wakes up in the middle of the night and says "Damn, I miss MJ," why can't he just phone her? Is Mephisto giving him electroshock therapy every time he thinks "Boy, Mary-Jane sure is a special gal, I'd be lucky to have her as a BZZZZZZZT!"?

Unless Mephisto made Mary-Jane think that Peter cheated on her or abused her. Go on, Marvel. Go there. Make my day.

ETA: Field Marshall Bingham, your response?

Comments

[box-in-the-box.livejournal.com]

Thank you for helping to make this a viral meme. :)

[box-in-the-box.livejournal.com]

Oh, and here's something else you need to add to your post, courtesy of haikuninja:

[black13.livejournal.com]

I guess the "civil union" broke up during the clone saga, when MJ decided she didn't want to stay with a man who beat her while she was carrying his out-if-wedlock child?

Tee-hee.

[mcity.livejournal.com]

My name is Jonn Wood, I'm a Christian*, and I still think OMD is massively dumbtarded.

*No, I don't know what I'm doing here either. I never said I was a role model.

Wow.

[(Anonymous)]

Jeez, how long did it take you to come up with a way to turn my pro-gay marriage comment into an example of homophobia. Wow. Cynical much? Angry much?

Best,
Marc Guggenheim

[rocaw.livejournal.com]

o_O

Re: Wow.

[seriousfic.livejournal.com]

Sorry, you misspoke. You said "how long did it take [me] to come up with a way to turn [your] pro-gay marriage comment into an example of homophobia", when you clearly meant to say "how long did it take everyone to come up with a way to turn [your] pro-gay marriage comment into an example of homophobia."

As for cynical and angry... yes. But then, I would say the one-two punch of OMD and BND have given me ample reason to be both. After all, you are stating by the act of marketing these comics to me (a young comic reader in my early twenties) that I would enjoy them and relate to the character of Spider-Man. A character who you have turned into a schmuck, someone who fears commitment, abhors responsibility, still lives with his mother at the ripe old age of 28, and is of course willing to deal with the Devil. Moreover, now you imply that your target audience also must be against gay marriage. Hmm... who is it that tries to hang onto their youth at all costs, fears meaningful relationships with women, but at the same time unconvincingly berates homosexuality? Congratulations, you've turned Spider-Man, the original comic book audience identification figure, into a frat boy. And here I was remembering the days when Flash Thompson was Spidey's nemesis, not his target audience.

And as for you... well, how silly of me to expect a professional writer, someone paid to convey ideas with an eloquence above that of the common man, to be able to express himself with the directness that God gives the common hungering animal. I probably should've used my psychic powers to divine your gay-friendly intent, rather than taken you at your extremely homophobic word. Or perhaps your subtext was "don't buy what I write," in which case message received, loud and clear.

Please explain how your comment was "pro-gay marriage" ...

[box-in-the-box.livejournal.com]

... Unless it was also "anti-One More Day."

Because right now, here's how it reads to me:



As seriousfic pointed out, pretty much EVERYONE is taking you to task on this remark, even the few people who don't think you were being homophobic.

The MOST favorable opinions I've heard of you have STILL said, "That was an incredibly stupid statement for him to make." And the LEAST favorable opinions have come from several openly gay readers who have flat-out stated that they will no longer be buying anything you write.

You're a PROFESSIONAL FUCKING WRITER, so if EVERYONE is "misinterpreting" your statement, then the fault lies with YOU, not with them.

Also, for a former lawyer, you're unforgivably fucking stupid if you honestly don't know the difference between a "civil union" and "living together for several years."

If you're really NOT a homophobe, then you're STILL a fucking idiot. And if you ARE, then you can fuck off and die.

Either way, man up and apologize, because you are wrong.

For God's Sake

[(Anonymous)]

What he said isn't that difficult to interpret...

What he's saying is this:

If you are outraged about two fictional characters not allowed to be married, then you should also be outraged by the fact that actual people who happen to be gay are not allowed marry.

You should not infer anything negative about gay marriage in that statement...because nothing negative was implied.

People are so worked up over OMD that they think Guggenheim is calling them out as bad people or something...it's silly...

Re: Wow.

[liliaeth]

Aside of all that Mister Guggenheim, mind explaining why in gods name, we should think your slimy sleazy, moronic, incompetent, boring, irritating, smug, arrogant, crappy, version of Spider-Man as more interesting than the capable, competent, loveable, heroic kind, gentle, honorable good man that Peter Parker used to be before Brand New Day ruined the character.

Pathetic

[(Anonymous)]

Wow. I think Guggenheim's comments were expressed somewhat poorly, but the level of hate on here is both ridiculous and sad. Some people need to step back and get some perspective before going off on silly rants about a fictional character in a comic book.

Re: Pathetic

[(Anonymous)]

Nope, different one.

Re: Wow.

[kali921.livejournal.com]

Mr. Guggenheim,

When half of comics fandom reads your words, due to your ambiguous (at best) and problematic phrasing, as either a condemnation of gay marriage and/or a slap in the face to the fans of MJ and Peter's marriage due to an apparent conflation of Peter/MJ and gay marriage, the logical thing to do is acknowledge that you've chosen your words poorly and expressed yourself with a singular lack of clarity. Instead, you've done nothing but cast yourself as a Bitter Creator™ who can't be arsed to clarify his meaning before launching an even more poorly worded counteroffensive. I won't even get into the laughable lapse of logic and poor taste you exhibited in insinuating that a heterosexual "civil union" faces the same kinds of challenges as a gay civil union.

You've made a character that I've adored for over twenty five years into something that turns my stomach. Kudos to you, Mr. Guggenheim.

Best,

Kali

Re: For God's Sake

[kali921.livejournal.com]

Sign your comment, cowardly anon.

[box-in-the-box.livejournal.com]

Another gay marriage supporter and BND-hater, me.

We're not alone, and your point is rapidly ceasing to exist.

[box-in-the-box.livejournal.com]

Yes, we should have rich and fulfilling lives that revolve around wasting our time criticizing OTHER people who rant about fictional characters in comic books.

I name you Concern Troll.

Re: Wow.

[prodigal.livejournal.com]

What he's saying is this:

If you are outraged about two fictional characters not allowed to be married, then you should also be outraged by the fact that actual people who happen to be gay are not allowed marry.

If that is what he meant to say, it'd have been nice if he actually had said it that way, rather than the mind-numbingly stupid way he chose to say it.

Re: Wow.

[black13.livejournal.com]

Wait. You say your comment was pro-gay marriage.

That means your comment was anti Nu-Spider-Man, because you said that if you hate Nu-Spidey, you're in favor of gay marriage. And if you like Nu-Spidey, you're against gay marriage.

So if you now say your comment was pro-gay marriage, then the above means you outed yourself as anti-Nu-Spidey.

Which means that everyone who supports gay marriage, as you say here you do, should not read Nu-Spidey.

Inquiring minds now want to know, if you hate what you're doing (writing Nu-Spidey) (hey, if you want us to stop reading it, then you hate writing it -- or at least you don't like what you've written), why do you do it?

Or, are you saying you're not bringing your A-game to Amazing Spider-Man?

Because any way you turn it, by officially stating now that you're pro-gay marriage, you declare yourself to be against Nu-Spidey.